FUGAZI

[Smallstone]

Whats wrong with saying something 'political' at a gig or through a song?
Nobodies being 'impeccably punk' here, simply expressing, as you are, an opinion. Do you think we're all after Alt Rock brownie points or something?

Thorn, do you get upset when Mudhoney play 'Fearless Dr Killers' or 'Pushing For War'? Pretty political methinks. Does that ruin the atmosphere for ya?

I think if you know Fugazi, or at least have an understanding of 'where they are coming from', then there would be a tacit understanding that at some point either through their albums or at their gigs an opinion is gonna be expressed that isn't just 'Hey lets rock!'. Don't get me wrong there's absolutely nothing wrong with 'Hey Lets Rock' as a statement of intent. It's kinda where it all came from......

I agree with you Superfuzzmx, to simply bracket them as 'punk' does them a real diservice. For those here who dig Fugazi I heard Ian Mackayes new project the Evens yesteday. Very stripped down, just guitars and drums. Drums played by Amy Farinna who used to be in DC band the Warmers.

[thorn]

most of the best bands ever had the hey lets rock and make music attitude, not politics, love, peace, war and all that shit. music is about music not politics. fucking hell politics are everywhere do they have to be in music too??? thats what ruins thier music, and makes me disintrested in thier philosophies and all that shit.

[Smallstone]

words fail me!!!

[thorn]

no we simply dont agree, and now it appears im the only person on this board who disagrees with some things. for me music should not be about politics it should be about expressing emotions using music, used in a clever way. anyway...

[Smallstone]

Agreed Martin.
Hey Thorn, it'd be a dull dull world & a dull dull board if we all agreed on everything!
But the fact is (and how can I express this in the nicest possible way) you seem to have a pretty blinkered view of music:)
No 'politics' in music means no songs like 'Strange Fruit' by Billie Holiday. No 'This Land Is Your Land' by Woodie Guthrie, no 'Masters Of War' by Bob Dylan (hang on who covered that?), no 'Revolution' by the Beatles, no 'War Pigs' by Sabbath and on and on and on.
Your argument is ridiculous. Whether or not you like Fugazi is secondary here now.

[RaunchHands]

last year mojo magazine published the list of the “100 Greatest Protest Songs Ever!”. while i'm far from having heard all of them and i'm hardly a fan of some of the bands and genres listed, it makes for an impressive reminder of how sad music would be without "politics". i've been thinking about this for only a few minutes and i've already come up with a bunch of other songs i could add... but anyway, here's the original countdown:

100. Chaotic Discord- “Fuck Religion, Fuck Politics, Fuck the Lot of You”<br>99. Asian Dub Foundation- “Real Great Britain”<br>98. Chelsea- “Right to Work”<br>97. Tom Lehrer- “Pollution”<br>96. Fela Kuti and Afrika 70- “Zombie”<br>95. Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy- “Famous and Dandy (Like Amos and Andy)"
94. Sun Ra Arkestra- “Nuclear War”<br>93. The Pop Group- “We Are All Prostitutes”<br>92. The Dils- “I Hate the Rich”<br>91. Culturcide- “They Aren’t the World”<br>90. The Rolling Stones- “We Love You”<br>89. Merle Haggard- “Okie From Muskogee”<br>88. Max Roach- “Freedom Day”<br>87. The Deviants- “Let’s Loot the Supermarket (Again Like We Did Last Summer)"
86. Sonic Youth- “Youth Against Fascism”<br>85. Beastie Boys- “In a World Gone Mad”<br>84. Ralph McTell- “Streets of London”<br>83. Negativland- “Christianity is Stupid/Hitlerstupid”<br>82. Linton Kwesi Johnson- “Sonny’s Lettah (Anti-Sus Poem)"
81. Victor Jara- “Preguntas Por Puerto Montt”<br>80. The Smiths- “Meat is Murder”<br>79. Swamp Dogg- “God Bless America For What?"
78. Merle Travis- “Dark as a Dungeon”<br>77. Rage Against the Machine- “Sleep Now In the Fire”<br>76. Leon Rosselson- “The World Turned Upside Down”<br>75. Josh White- “Free & Equal Blues”<br>74. Discharge- “Realities of War”<br>73. The Mothers of Invention- “Trouble Every Day”<br>72. Jimmy Cliff- “Vietnam”<br>71. Archie Shepp- “Attica Blues”<br>70. The Jam- “Mr. Clean”<br>69. Creedence Clearwater Revival- “Fortunate Son”<br>68. Robert Wyatt- “Shipbuilding”<br>67. Parliament- “Oh Lord, Why Lord/Prayer”<br>66. Simon and Garfunkel- “7 O’Clock News/Silent Night”<br>65. Johnny Paycheck- “Take This Job and Shove It”<br>64. The Beat- “Stand Down Margaret”<br>63. U2- “Pride (In the Name of Love)"
62. Lesley Gore- “You Don’t Own Me”<br>61. Marlena Shaw- “Woman of the Ghetto”<br>60. The Specials- “Ghost Town”<br>59. Bill Withers- “I Can’t Write Left-Handed”<br>58. Eddie Cochran- “Summertime Blues”<br>57. The Almanac Singers- “Which Side Are You On?"
56. Eric Bogle- “No Man’s Land (The Green Fields of France)"
55. Steve Earle- “John Walker’s Blues”<br>54. MC5- “American Ruse”<br>53. Boogie Down Productions- “Stop the Violence”<br>52. The Staple Singers- “Respect Yourself”<br>51. Elvis Costello- “Oliver’s Army”<br>50. Junior Murvin- “The Police and Thieves”<br>49. The Ramones- “Bonzo Goes to Bitburg”<br>48. John Prine- “Sam Stone”<br>47. Public Enemy- “Fight the Power”<br>46. Laura Lee- “Wedlock is a Padlock”<br>45. The Impressions- “This is My Country”<br>44. Buffy Saint Marie- “Universal Soldier”<br>43. John Lennon- “Woman is the Nigger of the World”<br>42. The Clash- “White Riot”<br>41. Brand Nubian- “Wake Up”<br>40. Bruce Springsteen- “Born in the USA”<br>39. Artists United Against Apartheid- “Sun City”<br>38. Tom Robinson Band- “Glad to Be Gay”<br>37. Janis Ian- “Society’s Child (Baby I’ve Been Thinking)"
36. Frankie Goes To Hollywood- “Two Tribes”<br>35. The Who- “My Generation”<br>34. Les McCain and Eddie Harris- “Compared to What”<br>33. Buffalo Springfield- “For What It’s Worth”<br>32. Peter Gabriel- “Biko”<br>31. Sly and the Family Stone- “Don’t Call Me Nigger, Whitey”<br>30. The Clash- “White Riot” (Repeat)
29. The Last Poets- “Wake Up Niggers”<br>28. Johnny Cash- “San Quentin”<br>27. Curtis Mayfield- “We Got to Have Peace”<br>26. Billy Bragg- “There Is Power In a Union”<br>25. Country Joe and the Fish- “I Feel Like I’m Fixin’ To Die Rag”<br>24. Serge Gainsbourg- “Aux Armes et Caetera”<br>23. Nina Simone- “Young, Gifted and Black ”<br>22. Dead Kennedy- “Nazi Punks, Fuck Off”<br>21. Gil Scott-Heron- “The Revolution Will Not Be Televised”<br>20. Edwin Starr- “War”<br>19. Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young- “Ohio”<br>18. Aretha Franklin- “Respect”<br>17. The Beatles- “Revolution/Revolution #1”<br>16. Woody Guthrie- “This Land is Your Land ”<br>15. Stevie Wonder- “Living For the City”<br>14. Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five- “The Message”<br>13. Phil Ochs- “I Ain’t Marching Anymore”<br>12. Special Aka- “Nelson Mandela”<br>11. Band Aid- “Do They Know It’s Christmas?"
10. N.W.A.- “Fuck Tha Police”<br>09. Marvin Gaye- “Inner City Blues (Make Me Wanna Holler)"
08. The Wailers- “Get Up, Stand Up”<br>07. Sam Cooke- “A Change Is Gonna Come ”<br>06. John Lennon- “Give Peace a Chance”<br>05. Billie Holiday- “Strange Fruit ”<br>04. Sex Pistols- “God Save the Queen”<br>03. James Brown- “Say It Loud- I’m Black and I’m Proud”<br>02. Pete Seeger: “We Shall Overcome”<br>01. Bob Dylan- “Masters of War”<br>

[thorn]

thats right claim to know everything smallstone, it might make you feel better. shoot me down go on, but know this music didnt evolve from politics, and never included it until the middle of the 20th century, when people figured they could make money off it. why claim this would be a dull board when i say we dont agree, then freak out when i disagree, with your "you have a blinkered view of music" shit. so whos mr. hipocrite now. no matter at least i have a life.....

[Smallstone]

Thorn, hey man and I was trying to be nice too! Dude chill out. I seemed to have ruffled your feathers here.

I thought RaunchHands inclusion of the recent 'Mojo 100 Greatest Protest Songs Ever!' list kinda showed the depth and scope of the political song and it's importance in musical history. Do you not like any of the songs on this list? I'm interested in what you THINK rather than trading insults.

My 'blinkered view of music' perception of your musical tastes was a personal observation and simply a repsonse to your comment on politics in music. I really disagree with your position and find it kind of baffling but like I said we can't all agree. My missive was based on this and if I had to be 100% honest a few other comments that I've seen you make on this board.

I'm not freaking out at all. You make another interesting point though, which again I take issue with. Apologies for that.

'music didnt evolve from politics, and never included it until the middle of the 20th century, when people figured they could make money off it'.

I kinda don't agree with this..... I think there is a long long history of 'rebel' or 'protest' music which could be construed to be 'political'. Irish Republican songs, English Folks music etc which dates back to the 18th/19th century and beyond. What about the Blues even. Ok music started to be recorded and sold in the early to mid 20th Century and yes indeed folks started to make money off the sale of 78s etc. But you seem to be saying that this is when politics in music starts? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm not claiming to know everything at all, just trying to have a discussion:)

[thorn]

ah yes thats more like it!!!! right im now sorry for freaking but equality is the key!!!! another thing that makes me hate political songs is the fact that i live in ireland where they are drilled into your brain by fat yobs, who claim to be patriotic so thats probably why i dont like em so much. logical explaination i dunno???.....

[Smallstone]

So anyway.....about a year on New Mudhoney album.
So Thorny. What do ya think? You still sticking to ya 'No politics please I'm from the Emerald Isle!' line or will you be listening to Under A Billions Suns which has a few songs that lyrically skirt around a few 'issues'.
Have you changed your views?
I'm curious.